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Moving the tool rest

Joined
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I had an exciting experience yesterday. I was coring some bowls and went to adjust the tool post height and got my finger caught in-between the bowl, natural edge, and the tool post. After a trip to the emergency room and five stitches later I am good to go.
I have started to think about what happened and how I can avoid similar experiences in the future for myself and others.
I move the tool rest while the lathe is running all the time and I am sure others do as well.
I am wondering about safe ways to move the tool rest when the lathe is running? starting with keeping your fingers clear of the spinning object.
How do you keep these types of disasters at bay and what are your safety protocols?
 
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Well, that is one I haven't done, at least not yet. Yes, I do move the tool rest while bowls are spinning, but I do almost no natural edge bowls. I have gotten my fingers pinched while sanding things, maybe twice. Now I keep the tool rest out of the way for all sanding, or at least more than a finger's thickness away from the piece I am turning.

robo hippy
 

Dave Landers

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If I move the tool rest while the lathe is on, and injure myself - I figure that's totally on me.
Same goes when I do something like jab the corner of the tool rest into the piece and have to "redesign".
I don't always turn off the lathe, but I know I should.

So if you're looking for a safety protocol for moving a tool rest, it's "turn off the lathe first".
 
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Appleton, WI
Many of us, even maybe most of us take that shortcut. But it's because we don't keep safety in mind. We seem driven by a need for speed. If we turn for a hobby, where is the race? We have a lot of turning muscle memories that we rely on. We would be safer if we added turning off the lathe before we adjust the tool rest to our muscle memory list.
 
Joined
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Like @Dave Landers said, we all know that good practices is to shut the lathe off before moving the toolrest, but we all choose to violate this practice at times - hopefully thoughtfully! Whenever moving the rest while the lathe is running I try to mentally question if it’s safe: Is the corner of the rest close to the bowl? Is the edge of the bowl close to the rest? Etc.

I regularly move the rest while running on the outside of bowls, seldom when the rest is on the inside of the bowl, and *never* when the rest is close to the edge of, or inside, a natural edge bowl.
 

hockenbery

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Ditto on @Dave Landers.
There isn’t a totally low risk way to move the banjo with the lathe running.

I often do move the rest while the lathe is running. I think I’m ok doing this.

I do lots of NE bowls and hollow forms.
They are not nearly as dangerous as leaving a sharp edge on a cut rim bowl or platter - these will slice deeply- i ease these edges as soon as I make them.

Two things I do consistently are to keep the banjo sliding effortlessly and stay on my side of the tool rest except when supporting spindles or a thin bowl.

Oddly my only tool rest injury was with the lathe not running. When I was a new turner, I mounted a 4x4 on the lathe and attempted to spin it around fast to check the clearance. Somehow I caught the thumb side of my hand between the rest and a corner of the 4x4. Ouch! Big bruise. Ice within minutes and the hand was ok but that bruise reminded me for a week and I haven’t done that again for 57 years and counting.
 

hockenbery

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am wondering about safe ways to move the tool rest when the lathe is running? starting with keeping your fingers clear of the spinning object.
How do you keep these types of disasters at bay and what are your safety protocols?
There are no totally safe ways to move the tool rest with the lathe on.

My safety protocols are to only do what I am confident in doing with low and minimal risk in my subjective evaluation of my skills and equipment. I always put on a face shield before touching the on switch - I cannot trust wood.
 
Joined
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I'm like Ron Solfest - with bowls , when turning outside, I'll regularly move the tool rest while things are spinning, , but never on inside , or on natural edge bowls . When I do move tool rest while lathe is running (or adjust rest height) I will pull the banjo AWAY from the spinning wood (using the locking bar) and then move/adjust, and when I start to get close to where I want it I can sort of "bump" the banjo in or out or side to side to get it where I want it. Unless of course I want to get the rest in real close for some detail work, in which case I'll stop the lathe first. Mainly because locking down the banjo (on my lathe anyway) can cause the tool rest to shift a little closer than I wanted it to.
 
Joined
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I will move the rest while the lathe is running but only if turning the outside and it's completely round. Never when hollowing the inside and I am always extremely careful to avoid any kind of pinch situation between the work and the toolrest.
I do turn off the lathe to move the rest when I'm shaping the foot because I don't feel comfortable getting my fingers that close to the work or if the work is not yet round.
 
Last edited:
Joined
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If you are prone to accidents, you should take precautions with everything you do. You can usually move the tool rest while the lathe
is running if you take care and move it slowly into position focusing on where your hands are and where the spinning blank is. There
are plenty of people that get in a big hurry doing various activities that will have accidents. I know one guy that has fired several nails
into his hand and cut several of his fingers off from being in a big hurry cutting wood on a table saw. We called him lucky & stubby.
 
Joined
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Quorn, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
The goal in any task should be Conscious competence Woodturnig with spinning objects is good example to practice this technique
Yes myself included I require constant reinforcement and practice to achieve this goal Often we know how to perform the task safely but act in another way
Noah will have spent more time in the accident room than the time saved by turning the lathe off even if he turns for the rest of his life
Do I always turn the lathe off No but as Noahs accident demostrates we all should
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

In psychology, the four stages of competence, or the "conscious competence" learning model, relates to the psychological states involved in the process of progressing from incompetence to competence in a skill. People may have several skills, some unrelated to each other, and each skill will typically be at one of the stages at a given time. Many skills require practice to remain at a high level of competence.

History[edit]​

Management trainer Martin M. Broadwell described the model as "the four levels of teaching" in February 1969.[1] Paul R. Curtiss and Phillip W. Warren mentioned the model in their 1973 book The Dynamics of Life Skills Coaching.[2] The model was used at Gordon Training International by its employee Noel Burch in the 1970s; there it was called the "four stages for learning any new skill".[3] Later the model was frequently attributed to Abraham Maslow, incorrectly since the model does not appear in his major works.[4]

Overview[edit]​

The four stages suggest that individuals are initially unaware of how little they know, or unconscious of their incompetence. As they recognize their incompetence, they consciously acquire a skill, then consciously use it. Eventually, the skill can be utilized without it being consciously thought through: the individual is said to have then acquired unconscious competence.[5]

Several elements, including helping someone "know what they don't know" or recognize a blind spot, can be compared to some elements of a Johari window, although Johari deals with self-awareness, while the four stages of competence deals with learning stages.

Stages​

The four stages are:

  1. Unconscious incompetenceThe individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[5]
  2. Conscious incompetenceThough the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
  3. Conscious competenceThe individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.[5]
  4. Unconscious competenceThe individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
 
Last edited:
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If I move the tool rest when the lathe is running. I will do so by the banjo or the pin/shaft of the tool rest. As my lathe is large ie it can spin 28" blank the banjo is quite high and gives a fair amount of space to move it. As to sanding etc I will always swing the tool rest completely out of the way, it just gives more elbow room to move.
 

odie

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Put the tool down and use two hands. One on the locking handle, and the other on the tool rest or banjo. Use a little side pressure with the utility hand, just before unlocking the banjo......it will always move the tool rest away from your spinning workpiece that way. Keep the bedways lubricated with your preferred method.....I use graphite. Keep that banjo moving easily and smoothly.

-----odie-----
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2022
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Location
Tarpon Spring, FL
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kendorart.com
I had an exciting experience yesterday. I was coring some bowls and went to adjust the tool post height and got my finger caught in-between the bowl, natural edge, and the tool post. After a trip to the emergency room and five stitches later I am good to go.
I have started to think about what happened and how I can avoid similar experiences in the future for myself and others.
I move the tool rest while the lathe is running all the time and I am sure others do as well.
I am wondering about safe ways to move the tool rest when the lathe is running? starting with keeping your fingers clear of the spinning object.
How do you keep these types of disasters at bay and what are your safety protocols?
I know most of us are in a hurry, but without a doubt, safety comes first. For the many years I’ve been turning, I learned very early on to try to move the tool rest while the bowl is still turning which I attempted, only to destroy a beautiful open void Wild Cherry Burl, that within seconds shattered into many pieces, and luckily none of them hit me. I think I learned a frightening lesson not to put my life in danger and since then, the lathe gets turned off. It is not worth the time gained.
 

odie

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Odie Im interested in the specific product you use
Howdy Doug......

I'm using a graphite powder, and have made up a little dispenser kit that attaches to the side of my lathe with a magnet. There is a little homemade pad applicator in the kit.....takes less than a minute to refresh the bedways with graphite powder.....banjo slides super easily. I have to do this once or twice a week, and it's very quick to do......

-----odie-----

 
Joined
Nov 23, 2021
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Chicago, IL
I'm a lathe off guy as well. I feel if I adopt safe habits and use appropriate PPE the time saved not having to go to the doctor to get fixed can be applied to find other ways to cut corners to save time.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
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Media, PA
Another that turns off for tool rest adjustments. I started that way and have never switched. I do wonder sometimes if the more frequent cycling causes more wear on the motor/vfd, but I figure still much cheaper to replace them vs hospital costs and being injured.
 
Joined
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Just depends on the position of the tool and or banjo to the work, which is also a function of the size/shape of the work. Sometimes its safe, sometimes its not, but I dont get my fingers close to the spinning work.
 

hockenbery

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What is accomplished by moving the tool rest while the lathe is running rather than stopping the lathe? - John
It saves a tiny bit of time and you are focused on where you want it to be.
The downside is a miss move can cause the tool rest to touch or hit the spinning wood - the results can be catastrophic or benign - but never fun.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
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West Central, IL
The goal in any task should be Conscious competence Woodturnig with spinning objects is good example to practice this technique
Yes myself included I require constant reinforcement and practice to achieve this goal Often we know how to perform the task safely but act in another way
Noah will have spent more time in the accident room than the time saved by turning the lathe off even if he turns for the rest of his life
Do I always turn the lathe off No but as Noahs accident demostrates we all should
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

In psychology, the four stages of competence, or the "conscious competence" learning model, relates to the psychological states involved in the process of progressing from incompetence to competence in a skill. People may have several skills, some unrelated to each other, and each skill will typically be at one of the stages at a given time. Many skills require practice to remain at a high level of competence.

History[edit]​

Management trainer Martin M. Broadwell described the model as "the four levels of teaching" in February 1969.[1] Paul R. Curtiss and Phillip W. Warren mentioned the model in their 1973 book The Dynamics of Life Skills Coaching.[2] The model was used at Gordon Training International by its employee Noel Burch in the 1970s; there it was called the "four stages for learning any new skill".[3] Later the model was frequently attributed to Abraham Maslow, incorrectly since the model does not appear in his major works.[4]

Overview[edit]​

The four stages suggest that individuals are initially unaware of how little they know, or unconscious of their incompetence. As they recognize their incompetence, they consciously acquire a skill, then consciously use it. Eventually, the skill can be utilized without it being consciously thought through: the individual is said to have then acquired unconscious competence.[5]

Several elements, including helping someone "know what they don't know" or recognize a blind spot, can be compared to some elements of a Johari window, although Johari deals with self-awareness, while the four stages of competence deals with learning stages.

Stages​

The four stages are:

  1. Unconscious incompetenceThe individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[5]
  2. Conscious incompetenceThough the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
  3. Conscious competenceThe individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.[5]
  4. Unconscious competenceThe individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Not having the four stages of competence spelled out before but realizing those four steps exist, do you find that a lot of people generally are not able to progress past the second step? An example would be a person not learning from their mistakes?
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2024
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I would say if you think along the lines and rules of being in a proper workplace and not your own shed or shop as you American guys call it then you would be working under a proper risk Assessment. Break the rules you could end up in A&E ( Emergency Room) but the backlash of not following the rules could be you lose your life your job and the means of providing for your family. It saves seconds to turn off and do it safely but don't turn off and it could last a lifetime . Choice is yours . Be wise and make the right one.
 
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