Ugh, Yet Another Bowl Gouge Sharpening Thread

Discussion in 'Main Forum' started by Tom Albrecht, May 16, 2017.

  1. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    We would all like to think we can not be replaced by machines.
    But we also know the history of computation is not the best predictor of the future of computation.

    We use to think a computer could not tell the difference between a cat and a dog.
    Now it is difficult to tell a dog photo from a computer drawn dog.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017 at 9:19 PM
  2. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    We cats are smart enough to know the difference. Mr. Squeak (pictured at left) can show you pictures of dog noses that he has sliced and diced. :eek:

    Humans can design computers, but computers can't design a human. :)
     
  3. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Bill consider changing can't to haven't.
    Absoulutes are getting harder to come by with people and machines doing the impossible everyday.
     
  4. odie

    odie

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    I guess R2D2, and C3PO might be a reality someday!.......might be better to "never say never".

    I read an article sometime in the past where some wealthy Japanese men have "female" robot companions. That seems a little weird to me......but, in the end, my bet is these robots of the fairer sex can't do absolutely everything a real live woman can! :D

    -----odie-----
     
  5. john lucas

    john lucas

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    Odie That's why I use spacers to set my V arm. My wooden spacers are similar to the metal ones on the market. I got the idea from Mike Darlow's book but his were more complicated. By going from the V arm to a 2 point area that touches the grinding wheel it compensates for any wheel wear and ever to some degree using someone elses grinder where the Oneway jig may not be set the same. Also instead of using a block to move the V arm each time when doing the type of grind with a micro bevel I simply put a V block in the V block to move the Wolverine jig forward which creates the relief grind. Since I am using a CBN wheel on one side of my grinder I have set the V arm to one position for the bowl gouge and it never moves. When you need to move it I have a V block for more acute grinds like my spindle gouges. that way I never have to move the Oneway V arm at all. I still use my Robo Rest on the other side to do all the other grinds that I play with.
    http://www.baileigh.com/outside-radius-gauge-org-3600?gclid=CPj5payO_NMCFdY2gQodjaUOKw
     
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  6. egsiegel

    egsiegel

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    Yet
     
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  7. odie

    odie

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  8. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Come to Kansas City and seen Glenn Lucas in person.
    Glenn is one of the premier bowl turners on the planet.

    Kelly might make you want to learn to use the Ellsworth grind. :)
     
  9. Tom Albrecht

    Tom Albrecht

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    Who is Kelly?
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Backwards answer: Odie is Kelly's nickname.
     
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  11. odie

    odie

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    Very true about Glen Lucas being a very accomplished woodturner. He is most famous for his production turning techniques for mass producing simple, but very well executed shapes in bowl turning. For this, the Ellsworth grind is exceptional, but is lacking in ability for more complex shapes. I'm always interested in learning other turner's techniques for sharpening the Ellsworth grind, which is my purpose for being involved with this thread.

    After having used the Ellsworth grind for many years, almost exclusively, I've returned to my roots and brought back the traditional, or standard grind to my repertoire. I've learned that I can't eliminate the Ellsworth grind, but more so have discovered that a combination of both types of grinds are most favorable to the style that I have developed for myself.

    -----odie-----
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017 at 11:54 AM
  12. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    The tip of the Ellsworth makes an inside corner round. I find a spindle gouge is a great companion.
    I use the spindle gouge for shaping any details like beads, grooves, a small foot, rims on a winged bowl, chuck tenons(both square and dovetail). the spindle gouge has the bonus of leaving a better surface than any bowl gouge.
     
  13. odie

    odie

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    One interesting observation is many turners use some sort of mechanical device for determining a preset nose angle on their gouges. Don Geiger uses his new invention, which I do think is a good method.......John Lucas does, and Doug Thompson mentions getting his 60° with some sort of jig, but did it by eye in the video I saw. An example of this would be the "raptor" style of jigs. Glen Lucas may use a jig for a newly formed grind, but I did see him setting the V-arm length by eye on a gouge that already had an initial grind established......observing the bevel, as it makes contact with the wheel, from the side. This may not be an "exact" way of doing it......but, in the end, does it really matter if the resultant grind is 60°, or 61°, or 59°.....? This is the way I've been doing it.....sort of a cross between Doug Thompson's eyeing the initial bevel, and once the grind is established, to set the V-arm length by observing the contact surface from the side.

    (Note: Al......I'm not going to get into a debate with you over the inherent value of the grinds you use vs the grinds I use. I will suggest that since my turning experience began prior to the Ellsworth, or side-grind revolution, and yours was initiated after that specific point, the differences in our perceptions may be influenced by the time differentiation's in our own individual experiences.)

    -----odie-----
     
  14. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    One of my mentors suggested that I buy a cheap gouge, and learn to grind freehand. He says to just have a good gouge where you like the shape, and grind the cheap one to match. Then, repeat. And repeat again. He says it should take about a day of practice, but after that, sharpening is a lot faster freehand than in any jig.

    Having seen the quality of his work, I cannot dispute that his tools are sharp (along with his technique and creativity...)
     
  15. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    Did you mean to say "simple" rather than "simplistic"? There is very significant difference in meaning. A simple shape would be a plain unadorned form such as a hemispherical or elliptical shape whereas the adjective simplistic is a pejorative word that implies a lack of good understanding or if talking about the works produced implies being poorly done.
     
  16. odie

    odie

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    Yes, thanks for the correction, Bill.......

    In that sense, "simple" would be the correct word.

    Glen Lucas' works are definitely not poorly done. :D

    (My post has been edited to reflect this.)

    -----odie-----
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017 at 11:56 AM
  17. hockenbery

    hockenbery AAW Advisor Staff Member

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    Kelly, I got my first lathe in 1975 turned some but not a lot.
    Of course Ellsworth was well established in 1975 so my beginning was after Ellsworth.
    In 1987 Woodturning began to consume most of my spare time.

    Three things had a profound impact upon my turning.
    In 1993 I joined the AAW. I then got an invited to a Chesapeake Woodturner's meeting.
    Tha aaw and the local chapter connected me with other Woodturner's.

    In 1994 I took a class with Liam O'Neil - the inventor if the side grind - probably the best turner I have ever seen. Learned to use and hand sharpen the O'Neil grind
    In 1995 I took a class with David Ellsworth - learned to use and hand sharpen the Ellsworth grind. Learned to hollow.

    Al
     

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