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Faceplate size

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I read the information in the "screw chuck vs. face plate" thread and found some excellent information.

My question is "At what point did you decide to buy a larger faceplate than the 3" one that probably came with your lathe?" I'm roughing out some wet wood bowls that are (or will soon be) approaching 15" in diameter. At 12" diameter, I have begun to wonder the safety of using a 3" faceplate. Has AAW published any safety guidelines?

The information regarding the screw chuck and mounting between centers posted in the thread mentioned above provides excellent insight for smaller size blanks.
 
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Donna Banfield

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Face Plate Size

Dave, I think just as important, or maybe more important if you're using a faceplate is the size/length/number of screws used to secure the faceplate to the wood.

I use #12 sheetmetal screws, square drive, 1 1/4 inches in length, which were bought from Craft Supplies. They can be used many times over, and last much longer than phillips head screws, or wood screws, which need a pilot hole. FWIW, the #12 sheet metal screws were purchased over 4 years ago, and I'm still using the first 'box'

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...uare_Drive_Screws___square_drive_screws?Args=

I don't often use faceplates for bowlturning, preferring to use a 2-prong drive spur driven deep into the green wood, parallel with the grain, and supported with the tailstock. That method allows me to reposition the piece as I work, to re-align or rebalance for grain shift, or unexpected cracks, knots, etc.

I will use a faceplate when turning very large blanks, usually over 18" in diameter, but even then will use the tailstock up against the blank until I need to pull it away to turn the tenon/foot.
 
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Dave,
I do not know the rules of faceplate size vs. blank size/weight, but this is a 75 pound piece of Cherry held on a PM3520B with the stock 3" faceplate, and 6ea 1/4" x 1 3/4" Tapcon flathead screws. Tailstock support seemed prudent.
No troubles at all. I did modify the faceplate screw holes a very little by drilling them out to fit a 1/4" screw, and adding a countersink.
 

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I pretty well go with the size I have. The lathe came with a 6" as standard and its been fine to date. Although a lot of what I do is done on a screw chuck backed up by the tailstock.

If I ever have any reservations I will probably do as Gil has done and drill it out to take heavier screws
 

john lucas

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I would say a really massive piece might require a larger faceplate but I've turned 19" x8" deep with no problem using a 3" faceplate. If I was turning things the size of Ed Moultrhoup I would definetely se a larger faceplate.
 
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My method for selecting the best size faceplate isn't at all scientific, but I trust my intuition and I like to use faceplates that are at least one half the diameter of the base of my project. Six inch project, three inch faceplate; fifteen inch project 8 inch faceplate. I'm not sure whether that makes sense to the engineering staff but it makes me feel pretty secure.
I'm also a fan of using the best anchoring material (screws) I can find for attaching the piece to the faceplate. When I don't like the way the screw tightens (in some softer wood the screws don't always pull down the way I like them to) I"ve even gone to the trouble to pre-drill the holes a bit oversize, glue in a hardwood dowel and use that to anchor the faceplate to the project.
 
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The Safety Guidelines are silent on the size of faceplate, but DO mention using sheet metal screws. Sheet metal screws typically have coarser threads than ordinary wood screws, so they have a better purchase in wood. The head form should be whatever is most convenient for the turner to use; I'm using hex heads with a ratchet myself, and they center themselves in the countersinks. Gil makes a good extra point by hogging out the faceplate holes and countersinking to match his screws; the screws are thus even less likely to "wobble" in the holes. I have mixed feelings about using dowels; hardwood is probably OK, but attachment of almost anything in end grain is typically weak except for side loading.

It occurs to me that the size of the faceplate provided with the lathe should be consistent with its swing capacity. Aftermarket faceplates place a judgment call on the turner. Once the piece is balanced, there's less demand on the screws, and a small faceplate can work nicely. The bolt circle size is more important than the outside diameter of the faceplate anyway. Steel is about three times as stiff as wood in flexure, so a factor of three diameters seems like a safe enough starting point. BEFORE the piece is balanced, I always use tailstock support, regardless of how the other end is mounted. (I'm experimenting with a few different techniques for that.)

I'm still on the learning curve, and the occasional catastrophe is a moderately good teacher, but not as good as advice from real experts. The shared terror seems to create friendly relationships among turners too.

Hard to tell if this is very scientific. I'm a registered Structural Engineer, and I tend to err on the side of caution. Oh, and I've also stayed at Holiday Inn Express.

Joe
 
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The information regarding the screw chuck and mounting between centers posted in the thread mentioned above provides excellent insight for smaller size blanks.

Mounting between centers moots most of the faceplate arguments. As you've noticed, some people use two small blades on their drive center to take the opening imbalance and whacks. Size of the work is important, but weight less so than diameter, because it's velocity squared, as you recall from your earth science. They used to teach earth science rather than earth religion in our school.

Once you're round and in some kind of balance there's less stress on the mount, so cantilevering out on a 3" faceplate seems more than reasonable. Think of the chuck you'll be putting it on later.

I just avoid the decision altogether and use a pin chuck. Solves the initial problem as well as the re-centering problem after the piece dries. You could do worse.
 

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john lucas

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I only use faceplates for hollow vessels. For bowls I always start them between centers and then go to a chuck for finishing and hollowing. In this case the chuck jaw size comes into play. If it's large bowl I use a large chuck jaw, usually 4 to 5". For most of my bowls which are under 16" the 3" jaws work fine.
I find hollow vessels vibrate less if held in a faceplate vs a chuck. Smaller vessels aren't a problem in either but when they get to 12" deep problems arise so I use the faceplates.
 
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I also rarely use my faceplate except for hollow forms or larger bowls. My 3" faceplate with 1-1/4 #14 sheet metal are my choice.
 
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We recently roughed a maple blank that produced an 18.5 inch diameter x 8.5 inch deep bowl. The initial mounting was on the faceplate that came with the 3520, using 1.5 inch long screws.

The surface that the faceplate mounted to was dead flat. An irregular surface puts a much greater strain on the screws.

BTW, that blank produced four bowls.

Later,
Dale M
 
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Looking back now I realize I also very rarely use my face plate. In fact I have now mounted my Longworth chuck on it permanently. :D

So I will be exclusively using my screw chuck and maybe a pin chuck whne I get around to picking one up.


largest size to date on my screw chuck would be around 14" supported by the tailstock, using very dry Merbau which can be very hard and un co-operative.All has gone well so far.
 

odie

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In defense of the larger faceplate......

I have faceplates of various sizes between 3" and up to 8" in diameter. I commonly use the 3" and 4 3/4", and that's probably all anyone would really need to have.....but, there have been particular pieces of wood where the application calls for a bigger faceplate. Just because a smaller faceplate can be used, doesn't mean it's always the best option!

Out of balance situations are better suited for the biggest faceplate that will fit the particulars of what you intend to do with the wood. In these situations, the smaller the faceplate, the more stresses your lathe will have to take at higher speeds, and the more propensity it will have to vibrate. One would usually run the blank at slower speeds, but I'm one that would rather speed things up.....if I can get away with it!

Also, there have been a couple of applications where I wish to mount the faceplate to the base of the intended bowl. By using a larger faceplate, the screws can be in a location that eventually will be turned off the bowl blank......providing stability without having screw holes to contend with later on.

Personally, I'm glad I have the larger faceplates......just so I have the option when the right time presents itself.....even though they are seldom used.

otis of cologne
 
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Also, there have been a couple of applications where I wish to mount the faceplate to the base of the intended bowl. By using a larger faceplate, the screws can be in a location that eventually will be turned off the bowl blank......providing stability without having screw holes to contend with later on.

otis of cologne

Point extremely well taken. On one of my first small bowls, I forgot about the screws and didn't use a waste block. I turned some tiny feet to fill the holes, with the feet themselves trying to mimic the shape of the bowl.

Joe
 

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john lucas

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One thing we haven't mentioned. I learned a long time ago (from either John Jordan or Clay Foster) to counter sink the wood side of the holes on the faceplate. This keeps the wood pulled out by the screw from pushing the wood away from the faceplate and giving you less than solid support. The counter sink gives the wood a place to go and lets the blank seat really solid.
 
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Thanks for all the input. It appears that I have little to worry about, especially if I increase screw length to 1 1/2 " for larger, heavier blanks.

I'm surprised that so many of the responders feel comfortable mounting such large blanks between a spur drive and the tailstock. I think I try that with some of the smaller bowls I'm doing, and maybe working up to larger pieces.

I should have mentioned that I rough out my blanks with a chain saw and do not put them on a bandsaw for further trimming.

Anyway, I'm getting a lot of practice having recently taken down a large hickory and a sasafrass in my yard.

My shop smells really nice!
 
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