dust and chip requirements

Discussion in 'Woodturning Health & Safety' started by Dean, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Dean

    Dean

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    First post fellas, I need to get the shavings and dust under control, currently I have nothing but a respirator. My "shop" is a 2 car garage all my flat work is done with hand tools but the lathe bug has got me me good. I have a little jet midi, a 14inch band saw and a drill press for stationery tools. I will be upgrading the lathe and the bandsaw this coming year and I need suggestions on what kind of flow requirements I need to be looking for. I will use gates but I really want to get the flow up so a duct behind the lathe will work as good as possible. and of course I want to keep the price reasonable. Someday I want a bigger shop and that is why I have put off this collection stuff so long but I think I need to get the space I have healthier so I can make it to the bigger shop someday.
    Thank you
     
  2. Owen Lowe

    Owen Lowe

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    I wouldn’t bother with attempting to collect the shavings. Just let them fall, then sweep and scoop them later. Sanding and grinding dust are worth trying to capture. I have one of those Jet canister-filter collectors and it works very well in this regard. Not sure of CFM but can look it up if needed.
     
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  3. Gerald Lawrence

    Gerald Lawrence

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    I am not up on flow but I have a 1.5 hp Grizzley. It is old but still gets the dust. Owen is right on the lathe the only thing you will need to think about is the sanding dust but I do run the dc even when turning because it is not good to turn it on and off repeatedly. As for the BS Robo Hippy (aka Reed Gray ) has a good video on dc use with the ports showing how to improve it.
    I have PVC ducts throughout the shop and made most of my gates with a shop notes plan . Not perfect but it does the job. Also in the same plans was one for a drop box (aka cyclone ) that is similar to a trash can drop but will not collapse like a trash can.
     
  4. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with Owen. You can capture the fine dust if you place a scoop very close to the turning, but you won't have any success in catching the chips and shavings.

    Bandsaw dust collection typically isn't very good, but you can usually improve it by making some baffles that fit under the table and also making a perforated throat plate if the saw doesn't come with one.
     
  5. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    Dean,

    As they said--it's not the big stuff you need to worry about. That will pretty much fall to the floor. It's the small stuff generated by sanding. You're worried about the particulates which are in the general range of 5 micrometers or smaller (1/10th to 1/20th the diameter of a hair or smaller).

    I have a "big gulp dust hood" set up opposite my lathe, attached to my dust collector. I turn it on when sanding. Some folks use a powered filter mask (see for example the Trend airshield).

    You want to consider four things:
    • Sufficient air velocity near the tool, so that fine suspended particulates get sucked into your dust collector. I'm going to say you want an air speed of maybe 0.5 m/s (1-2 ft/s, or 60-120 fpm if you don't want to do metric). Bear in mind that particulates are ejected from the surface of the workpiece, but there is some entrained air with the rotating workpiece, so take these numbers with a huge grain of salt (I'm using flow velocities used in clean room manufacturing)
    • Sufficient air velocity inside the ductwork so that bigger particles don't pile up--they all flow into your collector. Piled up particles in the ductwork cause clogs, which are not good.
    • Some means of mitigating against combustion of the large particulates or small suspended particulates: Control of static electricity generated by moving air, and also control of other sources of ignition
    • Some means of minimizing clogging of your filters, or making it very convenient to change filters. Cyclones are a way of separating the coarse chips from the fine particulates, which minimizes filter clogging.
    You may want to look for Bill Pentz's website. Lots of information there, but do your own research.

    Best,

    Hy
     
  6. Mark Wollschlager

    Mark Wollschlager

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    I use a Jet 650 canister with a trash can cyclone lid and a flexible hose.
    One car garage does not need much fixed pipe. I just move the hose to where I need suck.
    For sanding I have a sort of 'big gulp nozzle' that I put behind the lathe.
    I also have a Delta air cleaner that goes on for sanding and turning dry or exotic woods.
    I wear a Elipse Low-Profile Dust Respirator when sanding, especially at fine grits.
    I have a Triton air helmet that I wear when turning rosewoods.

    The cyclone collects the bigger bits, and sanding disks and paper. The bag of the Jet collects just the fines, and the bag takes (me) forever to fill.
    I use a 'flow divider' with a couple of hoses to collect on the bandsaw. It works well enough.
     
  7. Dean

    Dean

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    Thank you for the help fellas. The chips and shaving I don't have a problem with your correct. It is the small stuff that I'm worried about. I just have dust all over everything and I spend a huge amount of time cleaning up every week (fire is a concern) So I think I need a system that will handle chips( from the drill press but i'm primarily after the tiny harmful stuff.I have been looking at the grizzly and onieda I just want to make sure I get enough suction especially for behind the lathe.
     
  8. Dean

    Dean

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    This is the one I have been looking at Grizzly G0548ZP - 2HP Canister Dust Collector price is reasonable and its a 1 micron. 1700CFM 2 hp..That should do it. Do you agree?
    It has wheels and is self contained, if it is too loud I am thinking I can roll it outside.
     
  9. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    Well, there's a bit of sepcsmanship going on here.

    You can get 10 inch water column pressure, or you can get 1700 cfm--but you can't get both (you may get 1700 cfm with no bags or hoses attached). That said, I think this is adequate for 1 or 2 machines with a short hose length connecting to the machine--or connecting to a large dust hood near your lathe for sanding.

    Rolling it outside would make your hose length significantly longer--I worry about the impeller being able to suck through a significant length of flexible hose (flexible hose will cause a lot more suction loss than hard ducting)
     
  10. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    You could do that if you leave an outside door or window open to let return air into the shop. If your shop is air conditioned or heated that wouldn't be a good idea.
     
  11. Dean

    Dean

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    The other one I am looking into, more money, the Onieda mini gorilla. Does anybody have experience with these? The advertised CFM is much lower but may be more realistic Hy?
     
  12. Hy Tran

    Hy Tran

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    I would trust Oneida's numbers a lot more--they claim that their CFM numbers are at a particular pressure loss, which is more realistic to an engineer.

    I have a fixed Oneida system. I don't have first-hand experience with the portable mini-gorilla. The Oneida mini-gorilla-on-wheels was on my radar screen, but the footprint size at the time was just about as large as a fixed system. I have been pretty happy with the fixed Oneida system. It definitely moves a lot of air, and the cyclone does a good job of separating the heavy from the fine stuff.

    I do like that the new mini-gorilla has a built-in window to see the level of chips and shavings.

    I don't see a dB noise spec for this system. Be prepared to wear hearing protection. (You might call Oneida and ask them what the dB noise spec is).

    Hy
     
  13. Mark Wollschlager

    Mark Wollschlager

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    The 'new-ish' Jet cyclone has a pretty reasonable footprint, height and sq foot and compares pricewise well with Oneida.
     
  14. Bill Boehme

    Bill Boehme Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't have a good DC currently (it's a cheap portable one with really poor filtration). I've been looking at getting one of the Oneida units for a long time. I agree with Hy and I also trust the Oneida specs a lot more than I would any of the imported units.
     
  15. Dean

    Dean

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    thanks for the input everybody I was hoping I could get away for a few hundred bucks. Then again lung repairs would be more than a few hundred bucks. I will do some more research and study Bill Pentz page and rethink my approach. I do want to add a table saw, planer and joiner someday but that will be after I can build a stand alone shop. I'll call and talk to Oneida about options.
     
  16. Bernie Hrytzak

    Bernie Hrytzak

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    I upgraded to an Oneida approx. 7 years ago. and installed it in a small room which I had built outside my shop for my first (bag Dust collector) The Oneida just barely fit. Having it outside the work area muffles the noise and so don't need to wear ear protection. I provided a return air path back into the workshop, and installed filtration on that also, so helps to muffle sound and provides additional cleansing. If you are building a new shop you have the option of building a room within the shop, or adding an outside room, the outside room might make it easier to empty the container to the outside.The piping throughout is heavy guage 6" galvanized steel. At the lathe I go to my large gulp with 6" flexible for the last 4 feet. (The 4" flex causes too much restriction and pressure drop).

    note; Your health should be your first priority

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  17. William Cowan

    William Cowan

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    I just started and have the Jet Midi. I bought the big gulp DC and mounted in on my lathe. I does a good job of getting the dust, but the chips are mostly on the floor.
     

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