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The case for 220?

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I'm currently building out my shop and making room for a full-size lathe. (This is an upgrade from my current midi-lathe.) Currently, I'm only wired for 110v out there. So, I've been looking at the various 1 1/2 hp 110v lathes out there and trying to ignore the snazzy 220v models.

But now I've started thinking. If I'm going to upgrade my wiring and lathe plans, the time to do it is now before I buy that new 110v lathe. I remember my electrician telling me that a 220 upgrade would cost me a couple of thousand dollars. (It's a long wiring run to my home's service.) So, in addition to the more expensive 220v lathes, I'd have that wiring cost too.

Those of you who have used both top-line 110v lathes and 200v lathes, what kind of benefits might I see? I'll be turning 20ish 12" - 15" bowls a month and a handful of smaller bowls/vessels. Most bowl projects would start from purchased blanks, but some of will start from raw logs/blanks that I harvest (read: potentially heavy and wobbly). Before I seriously start adding $4-$5K to my budget, it would help to know that I'd see an appreciable difference. Thanks in advance!
 
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john lucas

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Wow interesting question. I'm probably not the best one to answer since I put 220 in my shop and have a powermatic that runs on 220. That being said I did an awful lot of turning for about 20 years on lathes that were wired 110. My last one was the Nova 3000 which was a great lathe. I didn't do any coring back then and didn't have any problems turning bowls an platters that were in the 15" range. The biggest difference between all of those lathes and my Powermatic was the mass of the machine which made turning out of balance pieces so much nicer. So something like the Jet 16" lathe which is not as heavy as the Powermatic but heavier than many other smaller lathes is a good choice and you can get those wired in 110. It will be interesting to see what others thing. Can you rent a trencher and dig the trench for the 220 and save a bunch of money?
 
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I turned on a 1hp (it was 220v) for a while. I could turn a 15" bowl, but I could also bog it down. I just had to take lighter cuts. I wanted more hp for that lathe, but never upgraded it. I have a 2hp Laguna now do not have experience with the 1-1/2hp lathes. The 1-1/2hp Laguna is the same as the 2hp model from what I'm told. I would think 220 will give you a lot more choices in lathes and if cost effective would be the best.
I did rent a trencher when I built my shop for the electric. I don't know what the saving were as I also was building my house at the same time. I know the electricians didn't want to do the trenching.
 
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Can you rent a trencher and dig the trench for the 220 and save a bunch of money?

Hi John. The underground conduit is already in. When I had the trench put in 5 years ago, I ran two conduits and reserved one for future use. The expense would just be for the extra wire and panel stuff and electrician time. I may also need a second panel in my garage since it's maxed out now. You know, I may call electrician guy and ask him for a current quote. He was just speaking off the cuff back then.
 

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The motor on my Woodfast lathe was originally 110v, but when I swapped for a variable speed motor, I went with 220v. Both motors are rated at 1 1/2hp. I already had 220v in my shop, so there was no problem to switch, but I'm not seeing any overall performance differences between them.....

-----odie-----
 

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For motors less than 2 HP it doesn't matter whether you wire them for 120 VAC or 240 VAC. It's mainly a matter of convenience. If the lathe uses an inverter to drive the motor then that will determine the required operating voltage. For motors that are 2 HP and greater, the operating voltage is 240 VAC.
 
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Doesn't a 110 at higher HP draw more amps? Especially at startup or if taking heavy cuts.
That could pop a breaker if you had lighting, dust collection, etc on the same circuit.
If you have the conduit, pulling your own wire out for 220 might save some cost.
 
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Mark, good point. With what John describes with conduit, he musts have extra, dedicated circuits.
I had to add wiring for my shop. I now have three circuits. It was a basic subdivision house that had an unfinished basement to save money. It had only four outlets for the whole basement and they are along the wall! The guy who finished the basement for a home school den didn't add one extra outlet or run any extra lines. Duh! Should have torn out the sheetrock ceiling and rewired the whole basement.
 
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not sure with jet or powermatic products today but around '08 or so the 1642 had to have dedicated line....@ 110 or it would trip the breaker....so know that in advance when running your lines......never seen too many outlets in a shop.....I guess cordless tools have their place......
 
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No one ever complained that there was to many outlets, circuits or wattage in their shop.

When I started a shop in my new garage I had an electrician put a 60A, 240V sub panel. From this box I could run what I need as needed. So far I have just got started on the shop so it is a bit early as I have yet to fully move in.

I did the same in my present house when I converted a garage to an office and shop. Never had any regrets even if I did not need the 240V.

I also used quad boxes so I had 4 outlets at each box. I also used GFI outlets on each circuit as I stand on concrete as I work.

Stu
 

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No one ever complained that there was to many outlets, circuits or wattage in their shop.

When I started a shop in my new garage I had an electrician put a 60A, 240V sub panel.

I also hired an electrician to add 220v and additional 110v outlets. One thing that has been an immense convenience, is to add outlets in the ceiling. It's great to never have electrical cords on the floor. All shop equipment remains plugged in, allowing for instant access whenever it is needed.

-----odie-----
 
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One thing that has been an immense convenience, is to add outlets in the ceiling. It's great to never have electrical cords on the floor.

Agreed. However, don’t put an outlet above the spray’n’throw area of the spindle! BTDT. Really gotta move this one a foot to the left some day. (The cover was broken years ago by a wayward chunk of something or other.)

Outlet.jpg
 

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Have you considered doing a lot of the grunt work, reducing the electrician's time required. For example, you could run the wires in the conduit, leaving enough wire that the electrician would easily be able to do the terminations.

Hard work or easy, electricians charge by the hour.
 
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I put in 20amp circuits for all my tools . If you will not use more than one at a time you could use one circuit but whil you are at it the more the better. I have a turning friend who is also an electrician and he helped me put the 220 in for the lathe . As I already had 220 for the TS and compressor, we put in noew breaker in 100 amp panel for the lathe. All this cost me was wire and breaker.
 

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Doesn't a 110 at higher HP draw more amps? Especially at startup or if taking heavy cuts.
That could pop a breaker if you had lighting, dust collection, etc on the same circuit.
If you have the conduit, pulling your own wire out for 220 might save some cost.


As far as the motor is concerned, there is no difference whatsoever. Here is an example. Let's assume that we have a single phase 1 HP motor that can be configured to run on either 120 VAC or 240 VAC. When configured for 120 VAC it has a nameplate FLC (full load current) of 10 Amps and when configured for 240 VAC it has a nameplate FLC of 5 Amps. When a motor can be configured to operate on either 120 VAC or 240 VAC, leads from the field windings are brought out to a junction box so that the windings can be operated in parallel for 120 VAC or series for 240 VAC.

In the first figure below we see the windings in parallel for 120 VAC operation. The input current is 10 Amps and branches so that 5 Amps flows through each set of windings and the voltage across each winding is 120 VAC.

Motor 120 VAC.jpg

In the second figure we see the windings in series for 240 VAC operation. The input current is 5 Amps and since the windings are in series, both sets of windings have 5 Amps flowing through them and the series circuit acts as a voltage divider so that the voltage across each winding is 120 VAC.

Motor 240 VAC.jpg

Therefore, as far as the motor is concerned, there is no difference in performance. But how about shop wiring? According to code, a 1 HP motor on a 120 VAC branch circuit shall have a 20 Amp breaker (and AWG12 wiring) which is more than adequate for all operating conditions. The minimum ampacity on a 240 VAC branch circuit is 20 Amps so again the branch circuit wiring is more than adequate. The code states that stationary machinery shall be on dedicated branch circuits and common sense would tell you that you don't run multiple machines on the same branch circuit (don't run a dust collector on the same branch circuit as a table saw, for example). Also, you're not supposed to have fixed lighting and power outlets on the same branch circuit.

There is one minor detail that I didn't mention yet ... the start winding. The start winding is only in the circuit for about a half second and then it is disconnected by the centrifugal switch once the motor reaches about 70% of full speed. Because the start winding will have twice the voltage applied when running on 240 VAC , it will accelerate to full speed quicker ... but not twice as fast. In the real world, you might not notice the difference. And, we're talking about a time interval of about a half second before the start winding disengages.
 

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I also hired an electrician to add 220v and additional 110v outlets. One thing that has been an immense convenience, is to add outlets in the ceiling. It's great to never have electrical cords on the floor. All shop equipment remains plugged in, allowing for instant access whenever it is needed.

-----odie-----

Agreed. However, don’t put an outlet above the spray’n’throw area of the spindle! BTDT. Really gotta move this one a foot to the left some day. (The cover was broken years ago by a wayward chunk of something or other.)

View attachment 23085

Ceiling mounted outlets for machinery on the floor is considered a hazard and not allowed by code in manufacturing environments. It puts a strain on the cord and can eventually lead to arcing.
 
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Ceiling mounted outlets for machinery on the floor is considered a hazard and not allowed by code in manufacturing environments. It puts a strain on the cord and can eventually lead to arcing.

Thank you for the clarification, Bill. The lathe has its own dedicated 220 wall outlet. This and the other ceiling outlets in my turnery are for small tools like drills, lights, carvers, etc. They prove quite convenient in my basement shop where the ceiling height is only 7-7.5 feet from the floor.
 

odie

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Ceiling mounted outlets for machinery on the floor is considered a hazard and not allowed by code in manufacturing environments. It puts a strain on the cord and can eventually lead to arcing.

Must be a state regulation, because the outfit where I worked for had ceiling mounted outlets for many cnc machines. It's where I got my idea from. There were about 100 employees in that manufacturing environment, so it wasn't particularly a small shop. In Montana, electrical cords on the floor is considered a hazard.

-----odie-----
 

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Must be a state regulation, because the outfit where I worked for had ceiling mounted outlets for many cnc machines. It's where I got my idea from. There were about 100 employees in that manufacturing environment, so it wasn't particularly a small shop. In Montana, electrical cords on the floor is considered a hazard.

-----odie-----

The National Electrical Code is published by the National Fire Protection Association which is an industry standards organization, but local governments aren't under any obligation to adopt every aspect of the code although most local governments do. I agree that cords on the floor are probably a worse hazard. Since you worked for a small manufacturer, it may be that they were able to basically fly under the radar. There is some room for some judgement calls in situations where there isn't much likelihood of the cord being struck by people or materials being moved around. Ideally, the power should be protected by rigid conduit in a manufacturing environment. Even in a home shop I think it's a good idea to use EMT (electrical metallic tubing ... AKA, thin wall conduit).
 

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The National Electrical Code is published by the National Fire Protection Association which is an industry standards organization, but local governments aren't under any obligation to adopt every aspect of the code although most local governments do. I agree that cords on the floor are probably a worse hazard. Since you worked for a small manufacturer, it may be that they were able to basically fly under the radar. There is some room for some judgement calls in situations where there isn't much likelihood of the cord being struck by people or materials being moved around. Ideally, the power should be protected by rigid conduit in a manufacturing environment. Even in a home shop I think it's a good idea to use EMT (electrical metallic tubing ... AKA, thin wall conduit).

Hard for me to say what the specifics of the code were, since I wasn't concerned with such things. I do know there were inspectors who came and approved. The ceilings there were high, about 25'. The electrical cords hung from the ceiling, with the connecting box dangling at about 8-10' above ground. The machines were plugged in at that point. There was metal conduit throughout the shop, but at the point where the electricity was routed from the ceiling, it was all rubber covered electric wire that dangled from there downward. My main machine was a centerless grinder, which was 440v, and also was electrically connected from the same kind of ceiling mounting.

-----odie-----
 
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Wouldn't think of running wire in a shop without metal conduit. I worked in the electrical department at Lowe's. High voltage is easy to run- just have four wires instead of three. However, there is the liability situation. IMHO, when it is wired correctly, there should never be any problems. I rewired my shop over ten years ago. Can't add any outlets on the middle wall as the idiots that wired the house wired it in a jackass way. Have the outside light switch that has the black wire on one side of the switch and the white wire coming off the other side. Can't plug in the vacuum to clean the van or truck- won't work. Can't add any branch lines as you would need two switches- one to cut off current to each wire. Ahhh, mesuggah!
 

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..... the idiots that wired the house wired it in a jackass way. Have the outside light switch that has the black wire on one side of the switch and the white wire coming off the other side...

Depending on how the wiring is run, that may be acceptable provided that both ends of the white wire are properly color coded for at least six inches using color coding tape or paint.

... Can't add any branch lines as you would need two switches- one to cut off current to each wire. Ahhh, mesuggah!

A new branch circuit means a new breaker in the panel. You should never switch neutral or ground legs.
 
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Before I seriously start adding $4-$5K to my budget, it would help to know that I'd see an appreciable difference. Thanks in advance!

John,

Have someone break it down for you. My shop is 250 ft from the house with 6G shielded cable all the way out to the sub panel.
I paid about $500 for the main cable and ran it out myself. Installed the panel and wiring and the wall plugs.
But the hook up was left to the electrician.

The total cost was about $1000 with materials in.
 

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John,

Have someone break it down for you. My shop is 250 ft from the house with 6G shielded cable all the way out to the sub panel.
I paid about $500 for the main cable and ran it out myself. Installed the panel and wiring and the wall plugs.
But the hook up was left to the electrician.

The total cost was about $1000 with materials in.

I agree that the cost of wiring a shop isn't as bad as many fear that it is because of rumors they've heard. I don't recall the total cost of wiring my shop, but I did much of the work myself such as running the branch circuit wiring and installing receptacle boxes. The electrician obtained the city permit and did the heavy work like trenching for the the buried conduit from the service entrance panel to the sub panel in the shop and then pulled the wiring through the conduit. I'm glad that I decided to run a 100 Amp feeder because I am not limited on what equipment I can run simultaneously.

It was about a full days work for the electrician and five minutes for the city inspector. After that, I worked at my own pace installing light fixtures, outlets, and air conditioning.
 
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Must be a state regulation, because the outfit where I worked for had ceiling mounted outlets for many cnc machines. It's where I got my idea from. There were about 100 employees in that manufacturing environment, so it wasn't particularly a small shop. In Montana, electrical cords on the floor is considered a hazard.

-----odie-----
Odie I guess it is a good thing we are not in a industrial environment:p:eek:
 
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I remember my electrician telling me that a 220 upgrade would cost me a couple of thousand dollars. (It's a long wiring run to my home's service.) So, in addition to the more expensive 220v lathes, I'd have that wiring cost too.

Before I seriously start adding $4-$5K to my budget, it would help to know that I'd see an appreciable difference. Thanks in advance!

How far is the shop from the house? A second service line might be an option if that is closer to a supply pole than pulling from the house’s drop.

Get a real quote and then ask what tasks you can do to bring down the costs if they’re too high.

Like many others, I wired most of my own place. A little study, some planning and diagraming, and a copy of Wiring Simplified will cut your costs substantially. For my house and detached garage/shop, I pulled the permit, did all the install of new service entrance, mains box, and new wiring. Inspector wanted two modifications (as I recall: add a second ground rod and put in a ground jumper around the water filter (we have full copper pipes)) which were simple to do and then signed off without any hassle.

If the lathe is going to be the only 220v need, then maybe keep looking for a 110v machine. However, once 220v is installed, it opens other possibilities for machinery or a decently sized compressor. It would probably be a selling point for future owners.
 
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Bill, I understand what you are saying in both statements.
1. The wire I sold at Lowe's had four wires- black, red, white, and bare ground. Less chance of getting them mixed up.
2. There is a sheet rock ceiling in the basement and garage. :mad: Easy to rewire but I didn't want to have to deal with the sheet rock mess. Don't know how the house passed inspection. House was built in the late 60s or early 70s. I ran a diagram of the house so I would know what breakers went to different parts of the house. Ceiling lights in the upstairs are mostly on one circuit. Same with outlets. NOT THE WAY I WAS TAUGHT!
We had a house built in Louisiana. I went out to the house during construction. The ground and common wires were tied on the same block- the one for the common wire. I was taught to separate them to their respective blocks. But it passed inspection!?!
 
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However, once 220v is installed, it opens other possibilities for machinery or a decently sized compressor. It would probably be a selling point for future owners.

And once you have 220v, then you can get an RPC to generate your own 3 phase.
And fun really starts!

:)

All joking aside, used 3ph motors are SOOOOO cheap.
 
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And we all know real machines are 3 phase, including wood lathes!!!

Hmm...you sound like someone on CDN Woodworking forums.

But in all seriousness, the best upgrade I did was when I found a 10 year old 5 hp, 880 rpm motor. (Think I paid $200 for that beast)
TONS of low end grunt for large diameter work. I call it the e-Hemi. :)

Hooked up to the VFD, I can overclock it to get higher speeds. But I normally don't do small diameter pieces.
 

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Bill, I understand what you are saying in both statements.
1. The wire I sold at Lowe's had four wires- black, red, white, and bare ground. Less chance of getting them mixed up.
2. There is a sheet rock ceiling in the basement and garage. :mad: Easy to rewire but I didn't want to have to deal with the sheet rock mess. Don't know how the house passed inspection. House was built in the late 60s or early 70s. I ran a diagram of the house so I would know what breakers went to different parts of the house. Ceiling lights in the upstairs are mostly on one circuit. Same with outlets. NOT THE WAY I WAS TAUGHT!
We had a house built in Louisiana. I went out to the house during construction. The ground and common wires were tied on the same block- the one for the common wire. I was taught to separate them to their respective blocks. But it passed inspection!?!

It used to be that there was no limit on the number of outlets on a branch circuit. I haven't kept up with later editions of the NEC, but I think that may have changed. I like to have room for growth on lighting branch circuits. I wonder what impact LED lighting might have on the code.

Neutral and ground MUST BE tied together in the service entrance panel. That's the one and only place where they are allowed to be tied together. If you have any sub panels then ground and neutral must be isolated from each other. As far as ground rods are concerned, there's supposed to be a ground rod(s) at the service entrance, but you aren't supposed to have a ground rod at any other location such as at a feeder panel. The reason is that it will cause ground loop currents which can play havoc with ground fault breakers.
 
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John, I've limped by on 120 just because I'd rather be turning that wiring. That'll probably change fairly soon when I upgrade my lathe.

I wired everything in 12 gauge wire on short runs when an amazing number of garages and home shops are 14 gauge, which I think really diminishes the available power, especially for the largest 120 bandsaws.

My 16" General lathe is said to be 2HP and is 120. A heavy slicing cut with a 3/4 gouge can slow the lathe, but it happily takes anything else I do. I'm not a scraper guy at all, though I bet heavy scraping would stall it. For what it's worth, I turn mostly full-time.

The area I would love 220 for immediately is my bandsaw. I cut some pretty thick blanks and my bandsaw slows if don't take those thicker cuts reasonably slow. Maybe I'm just used to the 10HP 3 Phase bandsaw in my old big shop. :)
 
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I agree with all re: the benefits of running a stiff 220 v circuit for machines for a lot of reasons. But, if one were strictly limited to 120v, do the newer technology DVR motors (e.g., Nova Striatech and Jet) offer any efficiencies that could mean more horsepower to the spindle at 120v?

Ely
 
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As far as ground rods are concerned, there's supposed to be a ground rod(s) at the service entrance, but you aren't supposed to have a ground rod at any other location such as at a feeder panel. The reason is that it will cause ground loop currents which can play havoc with ground fault breakers.

Both rods are connected to the main service. The inspector said something about the moisture in the earth and ensuring adequate ground, so a second rod was driven, maybe, 8 feet from the first. It’s all one connection back to the box.

I wired everything in 12 gauge wire on short runs when an amazing number of garages and home shops are 14 gauge, which I think really diminishes the available power, especially for the largest 120 bandsaws.

Yes! The cost difference isn’t that great when you get down to it. Why limit a circuit to 15 amps (w/14ga) when a 20amp (w/12ga) is much more flexible. There’s no more effort to do 12ga.

I suppose Europe and other locales are chuckling about this discussion as, I believe, they use 220 everywhere in homes.

I trust there is no one reading these who will go out and wire their home/shop using our recommendations and experiences without investigating the national and local code requirements. Use these comments as ideas and not firm procedures to follow.
 

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Both rods are connected to the main service. The inspector said something about the moisture in the earth and ensuring adequate ground, so a second rod was driven, maybe, 8 feet from the first. It’s all one connection back to the box.....

I agree. There are dry or rocky locations where that would be a good idea. One technique for improving ground conductivity is to dig a hole around the ground rod and pour in a 10 lb. sack of copper sulfate.

.... I trust there is no one reading these who will go out and wire their home/shop using our recommendations and experiences without investigating the national and local code requirements. Use these comments as ideas and not firm procedures to follow.

Good point. I've seen wiring problems in almost every instance where the DIY'er lacked sufficient understanding, but opted to go ahead and wing it. The trouble with not knowing what you're doing is that you don't know how badly you're screwing things up. An Internet forum isn't the right place to become sufficiently educated about a wiring project. The information may be interesting and maybe even informative and possibly even helpful, but there may also be incorrect information.
 
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in some places overseas....motel/hotel are wired where u put plastic key in slot when u enter your room which turns electricity on in room....when u leave u take plastic key out .....I recently ran into this same motel wiring in one motel in the states....1st time
 

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in some places overseas....motel/hotel are wired where u put plastic key in slot when u enter your room which turns electricity on in room....when u leave u take plastic key out .....I recently ran into this same motel wiring in one motel in the states....1st time

Maybe with the advent of LED lighting motels will become a little more generous in lighting the rooms. The typical room has just one dingy 25 watt bulb.
 
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this was a b___ western plus.....in crawfordsville In. It had full kitchen ie ref and stove...microwave....coffee stuff.....I was upgraded to this room mainly because they were sold out of the other rooms and I was a member of their travel club
 
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They make wire mesh cord grips for overhead applications, I worked on several car manufacturing plants as they were being built and they used overhead bus duct with individual bus duct disconnect switches with cord drops for each machine. Providing strain relief for the cord is the main concern, you don't want the abuse on the cord pulling the electrical connections apart.

A retractable cord reel is an easy solution for a work shop to provide overhead power for individual machines.
 
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